// Bad Behavior Start $txt['permissionname_badbehavior_goodgroup'] = 'Bad Behavior Whitelist Group'; $txt['permissionhelp_badbehavior_goodgroup'] = 'This option will make a member group exempt from all Bad Behavior tests.'; // Bad Behavior End// Bad Behavior Start $txt['permissionname_badbehavior_goodgroup'] = 'Bad Behavior Whitelist Group'; $txt['permissionhelp_badbehavior_goodgroup'] = 'This option will make a member group exempt from all Bad Behavior tests.'; // Bad Behavior End CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
Username: Password:

Author Topic: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE  (Read 2444 times)

Offline spurdy

  • CNYDGA Member
  • Guest
  • *
  • Posts: 128
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2010, 12:15:44 PM »
2.4. Pros Playing Am
A. Pros rated less than 970 may now compete
in Amateur divisions offered at PDGA A, B,
and C Tier events, for which they qualify based
on player rating, age, and gender.
(1) Pro Men and Women
<970 can play Advanced (MA1)
<935 can play Intermediate (MA2)
<935 can also play Advanced Master (MM1)
if they are of Masters age:
<900 can play Recreational (MA3)
<900 can also play Advanced Grandmaster
(MG1) if they are of Grandmasters age:
<850 can play Novice (MA4)
(2) Pro Women only
<850 can play Advanced Women (FW1)
<800 can play Intermediate Women (FW2)
<750 can play Recreational Women (FW3)
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGARulesofPlayandCompetitionManual.pdf

Offline Wendy

  • CNYDGA member
  • Moderator
  • Guest
  • **
  • Posts: 627
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2010, 12:22:29 PM »
To answer ManoSteelNumber1...This is the one PDGA sanctioned event that the CNYDGA holds.  All others are fundraisers and fun events as that is what we are all about....fun and growing the sport.  With a PDGA event there are many more rules and fees imposed on the event.  It is held as a Championship and everyone is welcome to play in the divisions offered.  It is up to the tournament director to set the divisons and I will not be having a recreational division.  I know this is your first CNY Champs so you may not be aware but you can ask anyone who has played in a CNY Champs that I pay out deeper than almost any tournament in the area.  I payout 100% of what comes in to 50% of the field in each division.  This doesn't account for the player's package that is given out to each am player and the CTP's for each round, where the 2nd round 1 player in every foursome gets to win a premium disc!  Yup, one in every 4 people win.  Then there is the jumbo toss where we give out a great number of prizes.  Then the raffle where you can opt to buy a chance to win a basket and many other items.  There is also a food vendor on site.  Again, this is a PDGA event which is maybe different than other events you've been to I don't know as I can't speak for them.  I can only speak for this one and I certainly can appreciate your concern and would be happy to discuss this with you on Sunday if you would like.  

Throwfromthewoods said things well also with great points.  Much appreciated.  Hopefully this helps clarify things but again, I will be happy to talk to anyone about anything in regard to the tourney.  Just give me a call or pull me aside on Sunday.  

See you Sunday!
  

Offline Matt

  • CNYDGA Member
  • Guest
  • *
  • Posts: 664
    • SyracuseDisc
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2010, 12:42:28 PM »
One more PDGA-sanctioned choke-job by moi, and I'll qualify for Rec  :(

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PlayerDivisionGrid.pdf

Offline ManoSteelNumber1

  • Guest
  • Posts: 50
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2010, 01:14:59 PM »
"Not to mention the tournament will host over 60 players in 6 divisions"  - Aside from the distinction between men and women, there are not 6 divisions. Also I believe there is only one female registered for the tournament, I may be wrong.  'Juniors' or 'Masters' divisions are purely an age distinction and not a skill level.  So that basically leaves us with Open, Advanced, and Intermediate.

"If I finish in 10th place, having lost by 12 strokes...well then I have a pretty solid barometer of where I need to take my game."  - You can get a good idea of where you need to take your game with a rec division.  You don't need to finish in 10th and lose by 12 strokes.  Rec wouldn't be playing from shorter tees in this case.  You play 2 rounds, get your total. Get your place within your division.  Then look at divisions above, and if available, below you. If you won rec and your score would have put you in the top 5-10 in intermediate, then you know it's probably time to move up a division.

Paying out deeper may compensate somewhat, but even if the top 10 places per division get paid out, it still leaves out those that would have been paid out if a rec division were available. So why not have a rec division and payout the top 5?

I'm sure I'll still have a great time as usual.  Again I'm new to the sport and probably don't know all of the intricacies of a PDGA sanctioned event.  I would just like to be able to play in a beginner division while I am a beginner.  Thanks for the feedback and opinions. See everyone Sunday!

#45636

Offline sheri clam princess

  • Guest
  • Posts: 73
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2010, 08:29:37 AM »
I am Sheri and I run the Beachwood.  A sanctioned tourney in Buffalo.  I am having a hard time justifying a rec division at the BWC for next year.  The tournament loses money on each rec player and the existance of said division has not been successful in years past.  We have only had 4 or 5 players and it has not leveled the intermediate field.  Just my 2 cents.

Offline MichiganJeff

  • Guest
  • Posts: 876
    • DisCap website
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2010, 09:05:37 AM »
On the other side of the coin, I ran the Battle of Saratoga this year with 16 Rec players and the scores show a definite "division" from the AM2 field.
 Last place Am2 shot 141, First place Rec shot 136.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=10782
"Captain Anhyzer"
PDGA #11653-NEFA #1112
Join DisCap! 

Offline sheri clam princess

  • Guest
  • Posts: 73
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2010, 09:40:46 AM »
Jeff- where were these rec players from?  When I played in Ohio last year,  I noticed how useful and NEEDED their red division was.  It was a place for chicks and new and really good junior players to be competetive.  They had 10 plus players.  I can't get NY boys to understand the difference between rec and intermediate. (And lately- the difference between intermediate and advanced-lol)

Offline sheri clam princess

  • Guest
  • Posts: 73
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2010, 09:43:07 AM »
AND- how did you get your guys to be rec players and not last last place intermediate?

Offline walker

  • Guest
  • Posts: 167
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2010, 03:03:15 PM »
I support Rec divisions.  It's something that rochester and buffalo clubs had lacked in the past.  I can recall a few tournaments where I and others showed up wanting to play Rec, and was straight up told to just play intermediate (the sub-context being that rec division is pointless). 

Last year at CNY's I had a great time in Rec division, and there was some great competition amongst everyone.   Granted this year if I could have made it I would have played AM2, but I think with the sport finally growing well in NY, it is a necessary division. 

I've also met lots of 'casual' players on the course who want to play tournaments but won't  because they think all of their competition would be 400ft hucking -putt slamming-under par 'amazing' players.    In other words they don't understand about rec and novice divisions.  I think all NY tourneys could fill if these divisions were better advertised. 


The RFDO this year had very successful am divisions with 16 advanced, 30 Intermediates, 14 rec players, and very little overlap in scores. 

Offline Wendy

  • CNYDGA member
  • Moderator
  • Guest
  • **
  • Posts: 627
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2010, 03:59:51 PM »
For me, like Sherrie said, a tournament can lose money on the rec division and that has been my experience in the past because I give so much stuff out, charging less for the rec division has always put me "in the hole" for that division and having to make up for it in the other divisions.  I've done it, as some mention in the past tournaments I run, but some years work out better than others.  I think as the sport grows and there are more newbies it is a division that can be considered more.  It also has to be looked at from a cost perspective and if people are okay with the cost maybe being the same as intermediate, then maybe it can be considered down the line in more events.  I just know I've done it and as Sherrie said, lost money on it and we can't run tournaments to lose money especially PDGA sanctioned ones as there are fees and costs involved that have to go back to the PDGA.  I'm all for at least breaking even to give people a good time but if a bunch of intermediate players decide to play rec because the entry is cheaper and they are short on cash that week then it is defeating the purpose of having the division.  We all know this happens even between Advanced to Intermediate sometimes and with the PDGA ratings being so compensating it allows this to occur based on rating.  There are definately grey lines there.  Good topic of conversation.     

Offline BigDave

  • Guest
  • Posts: 71
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2010, 11:37:17 PM »
I don't think most rec players would mind paying the same price as intermediate.  In fact we are all getting the same product regardless of the division we play in.  I personally feel that all pros should pay the same pro fee and all ams should pay the same am fee.  The exception would be offering a discount to a targeted demographic such as women or juniors.  Enticing these demographics to play helps the sport grow and lower entry fees are a viable option to do so.

The biggest reason I think the Rec Division is important is to spread out the players more evenly.  I don't know what the numbers were at Oxbow on Sunday but it seemed like roughly half the field was playing in MA2. 

Anyway I had a great time playing MA2 on Sunday.  The nice thing about playing in a different division from time to time is you get to meet new players.  I had never played in a tournament with any of the six gentlemen in my groups on Sunday and it was great to get to meet some new faces.  Round 1 it was great to meet some fellow travelers.  Matt from NRDGC had a great attitude and his enthusiasm for the game was really fun to be around.  Connecting with another struggling prospective course developer in Pat from Utica was cool.  If you are on the boards PM me your e-mail and I'll get you a sample proposal.  Round 2 it was great to play with some CNYers I had never had much of an opportunity to hang with before.  Everybody was super mellow and we had a bunch of laughs. 

This is why I play tournaments.  It is just great to be around a bunch of other people that share the same passion for the game as you do.  The division thing as a nice debate but the truth is I'd still be there even if we were all playing in one big pool, and I think many of you would be too. 

Thanks again for a great time CNY.  I can't wait for the next one. 

Offline sheri clam princess

  • Guest
  • Posts: 73
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2010, 06:49:37 AM »
Well,  this is the way that the I am handling all of this for next years BWC.  Trophy only for Am's.  Period.  Hope you like your players pack.  All Am's will be paying the same rate and all pro's will be paying the same rate.  If you wanna play rec, thats cool but the tournament will not support you.  (Financially of course)  I hope it doesn't negatively impact the BWC......but that remains to be seen.

Offline MichiganJeff

  • Guest
  • Posts: 876
    • DisCap website
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2010, 08:08:25 AM »
Jeff- where were these rec players from?  When I played in Ohio last year,  I noticed how useful and NEEDED their red division was.  It was a place for chicks and new and really good junior players to be competetive.  They had 10 plus players.  I can't get NY boys to understand the difference between rec and intermediate. (And lately- the difference between intermediate and advanced-lol)

NEW COURSES CREATE NEW PLAYERS !!! The new course in Schenectady gave birth to a whole bunch of them !!!

And I dropped the entry fee to $20 for Rec & Junior. So even WITH the extra $10 for non-PDGA it was only $30 and they got choice of a tourney-stamped Champion Teebird or Orc. Payouts were modest but Marshall Street Bucks. I think I paid out seven players deep. Last "cash" was a 3-way tie so they each got $6 in MSt Bucks. 
"Captain Anhyzer"
PDGA #11653-NEFA #1112
Join DisCap! 

Offline MichiganJeff

  • Guest
  • Posts: 876
    • DisCap website
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2010, 08:12:51 AM »
AND- how did you get your guys to be rec players and not last last place intermediate?
The players seem to "know their place" over here. Especially at Hyzer, that course has the potential to make a mockery of evn the best players' game.
"Captain Anhyzer"
PDGA #11653-NEFA #1112
Join DisCap! 

Offline Wendy

  • CNYDGA member
  • Moderator
  • Guest
  • **
  • Posts: 627
Re: CNY Championships 2010 - IMPORTANT DATE CHANGE
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2010, 10:57:13 AM »
Thanks Dave for your comments.  I'm a woman and in playing for years there never were many women players so I always got stuck with intermediate men and I played just to meet people and enjoy a day out having fun.  Still that is the case many times for women.  I know Denise played with the intermediate in the CNY's as she was the only woman.  This isn't the same issue but has a relation to it.  My point is like you said ... you'd still play regardless if we were all in one pool.  I appreciate that and am glad to hear your feedback of your good times at the CNY Champs and your meeting and playing with new people.  i always try to make it worth the trip.  It was a great day!  Thanks so much for your support!